Senator Muhammed Ali Ndume is
Senate Leader. Ndume, in this interview, speaks against the backdrop of the
perception that there is a lingering conflict in the Senate that splits the
upper chambre into factions, the assets
declaration case against Senate President Bukola Saraki and the screening of
ministerial nominees.
The All Progressives Congress
members in the Senate appear still divided. The Lawan group continues to show it is bitter that the Saraki group, in defiance to
the party directive, denied it the
Senate presidency. What is the situation as an insider?
Let me be honest with you. The
so-called factions you talked about is more of an outside talk than inside. In
the Senate, we only have one faction and that is the APC and the second one is
the PDP. Whatever comes to the floor of the Senate, all the APC senators are
ever united. There was no time in the running of the Senate that we exhibited
factionalization. Faction is based on interest which is normal in politics.
People will try their hands on what they want, but if they don’t get it, we put
it behind us and move forward. So, in
the Senate so far, none of the members has allowed his or her interest to
infringe on the overall interest of the Senate. We can give the Senate that
credit that we are ever united in terms of addressing issues that affect the
nation. So, the attack from the media on the Senate beats me. For example, is
there any issue of national importance
the Senate has not touched ? We
have had several confirmations, we have screened the ministerial nominees.
We have had several bills read and there are some even going through
second reading. Anytime issues come up in the Senate, we treat them.
You were reported to be shuttling
between the National Leader of your party, Ashiwaju Ahmed Bola Tinubu, the
Presidency with a view to resolving the problems the Senate President has over his emergence
and even some of your colleagues still acknowledge that there is a faction
within the APC in the Senate. Do you still stand by your
claim that there is no faction within
the APC in the Senate?
Yes, the emergence of the
leadership created disaffection between us in terms of the two groups that were
interested in the positions, but, generally, when you have groups contesting
for positions, it is usually the lucky one that gets it; besides,
leadership comes from God. When the Senate President emerged,
I wanted to run as Deputy Senate President, but God didn’t make it my way. Along
the line, I ended up being the Senate Leader, the other group missed out. Truly,
the party was not happy initially about how the whole process that produced the
presiding officers, especially the DSP (Deputy Senate President), went, but the same party put all that behind it
and said it was ready to move on. So the party wanted to nominate Senators
Akume and Lawan for other leadership positions. That too didn’t work. But after
sometime, I that emerged as Senate Leader,
don’t think I have issues with anybody. My colleagues in the North-East,
by God’s grace and by their wish, eight
out of about 10 or 11 of us, endorsed me, and that was how I came in. Again, I don’t think we have
anything personal against any of our colleagues outside politics.
Senator Lawan is my friend. If
God had destined that he became Senate President, I would have embraced his
leadership. God destined that I be the Leader of the Senate, and here I am now. I have never seen or
heard Senator Lawan coming out to say he was against my emergence as Leader of
the Senate. And I would not have had anything against his emergence as Senate
President. All of us, as senators, are
qualified to be Senate President, it is just that it is only one person that
must be there.
The Senate President is presently before the Code of Conduct
Tribunal. Are you, like some other people, of the opinion that he should resign
from office?
I don’t think so. The Constitution of this country, which
guides all of us, is very clear. Everybody is presumed innocent until proved
guilty by a competent court of law. As of
now, the Senate President is before the court of law; and until he is convicted, I don’t think it will
be fair for him to be presumed guilty. It is not a fair comment. What the law
says is that until you are proved guilty, you are innocent in the eyes of the
law. Please, don’t run more than your shadow.. I think Nigerians should be
patient and await the outcome of the verdict of the court. Until that is done,
I don’t think it will be fair to ask him to resign. Again, if he felt that he
wanted to step aside until he is cleared,
that would have been totally different, but to compel him to resign amid
the trial is an aberration.
The clearing of the ministerial
nominees, especially the controversial ones like former Governor Amaechi of
River State, some say, was an anti – climax, making people to conclude that it
may have been done in order to give a soft landing to the Senate President, in
case he is convicted by the CCT?
I don’t get the logic behind
that. Some Nigerians are hailing our actions, because this is, in a long
while, the most transparent, thorough
screening I have seen. We had instances where this ‘bow and go’ exercise
was abused. But what we did now was that
even if you were a member of the National Assembly, and you are nominated and
because of the respect we have for our colleagues, you can bow and go, we felt
you need to
interact with us and that was
exactly what we did on the floor. You guys (media), no matter what we do, you
criticise. If we go right, you criticise, if we go left, it is the same
criticism; so, either way, you will never escape criticisms. However, let me say this clearly,
the confirmation hearing is a product of our Constitution. And the
constitutional requirements for every nominee
are very clear. The Senate
responsibility is to make sure that every nominee meets those requirements. So far, I don’t think there is
any nominee cleared against the constitutional provisions. The constitutional
provision is very simple. It states that every nominee must meet the same requirements for those who want
to contest for the House of Representatives. And these are basically three. The
first is the person must be 30 years old or above.
Two: The person must be educated to the secondary
school level or its equivalent. Three:
The person must be sponsored or must be a member of a political party. Then
there are other requirements that the person must be of sound mind, must not be
an ex – convict, tax paying, and most of these people meet the requirements.
So, senators constitutionally qualify to be ministers. And section five of the
Nigerian Constitution makes it clear.
The Constitution did not require us to put them through aptitude test. The Senate has the privilege
such that when somebody comes, you can say ‘bow and go’. In the case of Alhaji
Lai Muhammed, I moved the motion that being the spokesman for our party, a
qualified lawyer, a person of credible character, he should be given that
respect to take a bow and go. The Minority Leader seconded it, although there
were some dissenting voices, which is
normal, the minority will have their say and the majority have their way.
The prevailing situation gives
the impression that the Senate may be on collision course with the executive,
given that some members of the Senate are presently under going either
interrogation or trial before the court for one case or the other. Two clear
examples are Senate President Saraki and the Minority Leader?
What collision course? For what?
The law is there and nobody is supposed to be above the law. Anybody that has
question to answer before the law should be free to do so like the Senate
President and the Minority Leader. That is normal. Any accused is innocent
until proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt, because that is what the law
says. Otherwise, if it is just accusation, you can accuse anybody. Even the
President at one time was accused of several things before the election, he was
cleared eventually. So many people have gone through the process and they are
out there today without problems. Some
of us went through such situation and we
are today in positions of leadership. I was accused of sponsoring Boko Haram
and I am in court even though there isn’t evidence before the court to prove
the allegation. I cannot run away from it. It is normal. But for anybody to be
presumed guilty before conviction is not fair.
The PDP spokesperson, in a
release, said the Federal Government is arresting political opponents, citing
the case of a former governor of Akwa Ibom, Senator Godswill Akpabio of the
PDP, because of the fear that the ruling
might lose power to the PDP in 2019.
What do you think?
I seriously do not see how the
arrest of anybody weakens any party. However, Senator Akpabio said he was not
arrested but invited by the EFCC and the PDP is saying he was arrested. So,
what do we believe? As Akpabio rightly said, if you serve, especially as the
governor of a state, a rich state like Akwa-Ibom for eight years, there is
bound to be grumbling on issues as
expressed in the petition against him. The EFCC has the responsibility to look
into the petition and then invite him.
And after interrogation, he was allowed to go.
I guess that is what. Happened. I have not heard of any arrest. Even the
person(Akpabio) involved said he was not arrested, rather, he was invited. So,
when PDP is talking about arresting somebody and the person the party is
talking about is saying he was not arrested, then you begin to wonder, what
really is happening?
Why is the Senate yet to
inaugurate standing committees. Does it
have anything to do with the instability in
the chambre?
Absolutely not. What is the
instability in the Senate you are talking about? If there is one, please tell
me. Having said that, there are some committees already in place. There is the
public accounts, media, and ad – hoc committees to take care of certain things.
What is then delaying the
inauguration of the standing committees?
We are taking our time, and, more
importantly, we don’t have ministers in place at the moment; if we inaugurate
the committees now, what are they going to be doing ? We want the ministers to
be in place before we inaugurate the committees. And as you know, government is yet to put in place the cabinet
owing to the cleaning exercise
the President is under taking.
Government took office with almost an
empty treasury, a battered system and economy.
The President is trying to
streamline the ministries in tandem with the realities on ground. That has not
been done yet. So, we want to see how many of the ministries we will have on ground so that that would
allow you to carve out appropriate
committees to oversight the ministries. This is a new government, unlike the
previous government when PDP was in charge, and things were already on ground,
so it was easier to inaugurate the committees almost immediately. But now we
have a new government,with a new way of doing things. So, I don’t see the need for the hurry.
There is no vacuum so far. Work
that needs to be done is being done. I don’t know why you people are worried
about committees. There are and will still be a lot of things to be done
differently in this Senate. This Senate is more transparent, interactive. You
confirmed that you read tweets of the Senate President regularly. That kind of
avenue was not there before. This Senate wants to interact more with the
people. Before now, the schedule for the day is given the same day, but now
senators don’t need to wait to see the
schedule for the day same day; we send
it to their email boxes. Also our
library, we want to make it e-library so that you don’t need to be physically
present in the National Assembly before
you get your work done. A lot of things are being put in place and will only be
visible when they are completed. So, this Senate is totally different from the
previous.
Would you say the onslaught of the military against the Boko Haram will
meet the December date given by the
President to take the insurgents out of the country?
We are hoping that they will meet
the deadline. We have recorded successes
against the insurgents and; most
importantly, this government, under the leadership of President Muhammadu
Buhari, is serious about addressing the security challenges. Apart from that of
Boko Haram, there are other things affecting us economically, especially oil theft, which is presently being
addressed. Kidnapping and armed robbery that are rampant
are being addressed too.
The President has been criss –
crossing the world in order to get support from the international community.
And the International community, because of the integrity of this
government, has shown serious
commitment by reaching out. Now the army command has shifted to Maiduguri, and the chief of the army staff is regularly
seen at the war front.
This is the proactive nature of
our military formations.We have seen how many Boko Haram commanders surrendering. Honestly, there is light at the end of the tunnel for
us as a nation regarding the Boko Haram insurgency. Unlike before when
Nigerians were hopeless, we are very hopeful now that the activities of these
insurgents, in a matter of time, will come to an end. Again, insurgency is not a
normal war you just use the fire brigade approach to quench.
A lot of things had degenerated
before this government came in; so a lot of things are to be put in place
before one can comfortably say the war would be won, and now things are being
put in place and that is why one can say, based on what the military is doing, in terms of taking the fight or battle
to the insurgents, that they will get rid of the insurgents. The bombs
explosions here and there are a manifestation of the desperation of the dying
insurgents. I just returned from Maiduguri;
people there are now more confident and calm; they feel more secure than before. And, by December, I believe the
target set by the President is achievable.
You were almost killed by
insurgents bombs targetting you in your senatorial district early this year,
and the intensity was such that residents of the district had to be
evacuated. What is the difference between then and now?
There is a tremendous difference.
Most of our people in the Internally Displaced Camps, IDP, in Maiduguri, about 1,000 of them, have been moved back to
Gwoza. Presently, virtually all the places occupied by the insurgents have been
retaken by our military. The military is in charge of these places. Most of the
IDPs are returning home. Only recently,I
was with the (Borno) governor and we are in the course of moving the IDPs back to the local government
headquarters such that there will be transit camps. The challenge we are
presently facing arises from the fact that about 18 of the local government
areas were destroyed by Boko Haram, so asking people to go back to their houses
without rebuilding them will be difficult and that is why government is trying
to rebuild some of these houses before residents of those localities can say
they are going back.
The Obasanjo administration, at
the inception, was very active with the war on corruption, but the momentum
went down. What is the guarantee that history will not repeat itself with this administration?
The good thing about this war
against corruption is that a corrupt person will not be able to fight
corruption. But every Nigerian knows the credibility, integrity and seriousness
of President Buhari. So, it is the
advantage he is using to fight corruption head long. Yes, you are right,
corruption is not something you can fight and win easily, it is a not a visible
war, you have to do thorough
investigation, because you are trying to get at
corrupt individuals who are trying to frustrate every effort that would
lead to their arrest; that is one of the challenges. Meanwhile, the biggest
challenge in all of this is that a lot
of this corruption is offshore.
That means people steal the money and take it out. Unlike here where
you could go to a suspect’s ‘ house, search, get evidence and conviction, when it is offshore, a lot of due delligence would have to be
followed. With Buhari in power, I think
every Nigerian is confident that we are on the winning side, because he is a
transparent person. And that is why the international community and indeed
most non-governmental organisations,
NGOs, have rallied round him that this
is a man who truly and honestly wants to make the desired change in the
country. We can see that having him as President and his determination to fight
corruption, a lot of things are beginning to change in the country.